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	<title>Comments on: Should I attempt a transparent Ad-pr-tising search?</title>
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	<link>http://gobigalways.com/should-i-attempt-a-transparent-ad-pr-tising-search/</link>
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	<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 11:02:20 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Yura</title>
		<link>http://gobigalways.com/should-i-attempt-a-transparent-ad-pr-tising-search/#comment-1564</link>
		<dc:creator>Yura</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jun 2008 04:25:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gobigalways.com/?p=307#comment-1564</guid>
		<description>Unfortunately, the only person, who can make the pick, is you.

Instead of asking here (though it might be a good place to find an agency that has already worked in collaboration), you can try asking on Sphinn (start a discussion).

Alternatively, you can ask for recommendations from your readers. Yes, it is something you have already mentioned, but that's a viable way, IMHO.

Who I can recommend is ACS (http://acsseo.com/services/). Muhammad Saleem is the top man in the social media industry and I believe as a team, they should be able to cover what you want.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Unfortunately, the only person, who can make the pick, is you.</p>
<p>Instead of asking here (though it might be a good place to find an agency that has already worked in collaboration), you can try asking on Sphinn (start a discussion).</p>
<p>Alternatively, you can ask for recommendations from your readers. Yes, it is something you have already mentioned, but that&#8217;s a viable way, IMHO.</p>
<p>Who I can recommend is ACS (http://acsseo.com/services/). Muhammad Saleem is the top man in the social media industry and I believe as a team, they should be able to cover what you want.</p>
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		<title>By: everythingsteve.com</title>
		<link>http://gobigalways.com/should-i-attempt-a-transparent-ad-pr-tising-search/#comment-1551</link>
		<dc:creator>everythingsteve.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jun 2008 14:17:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gobigalways.com/?p=307#comment-1551</guid>
		<description>You are not the first to bemoan the lack of integration between PR firms and ad agencies. Of course, integrated marketing firms have arisen in the past to try and conquer this issue. Many of them are simply not good in their core individual practices. Combine that with the rapidly evolving change in both advertising and PR, and that may spell trouble. But I think you've already got part of the solution. And that is YOU. In my past life I spent many many years running corporate communications functions in mid-size (i.e., $500 million to $1 billion-plus organizations) and running accounts for large companies (i.e., multi-billion dollars) at a large PR firm.
Typically, it was the people running the marketing organization who set the pace and defined: a) the rules of the road for how the individual firms would operate, what their objectives and defining principles would be, b) how they would 'play' together, i.e., interactions between company and vendor, interactions between vendors. I know this is grossly simple, but in the most effective relationships and most amazing creative/results-producing work, I've seen one dynamic consistently...chemistry.

If you think transparency is a way to achieve this consistency, then go for it. BTW, one rule I'd apply for your PR agency RFP. Be as painstakingly specific in every single stage of the review process as possible. If you do this, then as another poster suggests, you'll have firms weeding themselves out, rather than heckling you with voice mail spam. But I also think that overall, you can set the rule for collaboration...without necessarily making the process itself transparent, particularly because there are many reasons the individual competitors in the race to win your company's business may want to divulge their winning cards to their competitors, even in today's exciting 2.X world. Good luck!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You are not the first to bemoan the lack of integration between PR firms and ad agencies. Of course, integrated marketing firms have arisen in the past to try and conquer this issue. Many of them are simply not good in their core individual practices. Combine that with the rapidly evolving change in both advertising and PR, and that may spell trouble. But I think you&#8217;ve already got part of the solution. And that is YOU. In my past life I spent many many years running corporate communications functions in mid-size (i.e., $500 million to $1 billion-plus organizations) and running accounts for large companies (i.e., multi-billion dollars) at a large PR firm.<br />
Typically, it was the people running the marketing organization who set the pace and defined: a) the rules of the road for how the individual firms would operate, what their objectives and defining principles would be, b) how they would &#8216;play&#8217; together, i.e., interactions between company and vendor, interactions between vendors. I know this is grossly simple, but in the most effective relationships and most amazing creative/results-producing work, I&#8217;ve seen one dynamic consistently&#8230;chemistry.</p>
<p>If you think transparency is a way to achieve this consistency, then go for it. BTW, one rule I&#8217;d apply for your PR agency RFP. Be as painstakingly specific in every single stage of the review process as possible. If you do this, then as another poster suggests, you&#8217;ll have firms weeding themselves out, rather than heckling you with voice mail spam. But I also think that overall, you can set the rule for collaboration&#8230;without necessarily making the process itself transparent, particularly because there are many reasons the individual competitors in the race to win your company&#8217;s business may want to divulge their winning cards to their competitors, even in today&#8217;s exciting 2.X world. Good luck!</p>
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		<title>By: Mattias</title>
		<link>http://gobigalways.com/should-i-attempt-a-transparent-ad-pr-tising-search/#comment-1550</link>
		<dc:creator>Mattias</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jun 2008 09:06:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gobigalways.com/?p=307#comment-1550</guid>
		<description>Great idea and yes open is key, both in the pitch process and in agency collaborations. 
Now I don't think you will find what you are looking for without using niche agencies, specialized in one area of expertise. That of course will lead to some headaches when making the selection but will show in the result. 
As for being open with the pitch I must agree with @John Johansen, ask for interest publicly but make your decisions within the company, you know your brand and what you want out of the collaboration. Showing a case or two publicly with relevance to the pitch is a good idea, and can generate some good discussion. 
As for getting these agencies to play together, it's like a pack of wolfs, one strong leader with a set of rules and a clear direction/vision and the rest will follow. Two ways to deal with this, you take on the lead role or one of the agency do this (might be the best way to create the one agency approach, but with collaborative selection). Important is to have all figured out form your side then involve the agencies, P&#38;G is a good ref. And if an agency can't be open and collaborate, like in the real world, they are not worth having around.  
Will follow this with great interest, and good luck!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great idea and yes open is key, both in the pitch process and in agency collaborations.<br />
Now I don&#8217;t think you will find what you are looking for without using niche agencies, specialized in one area of expertise. That of course will lead to some headaches when making the selection but will show in the result.<br />
As for being open with the pitch I must agree with @John Johansen, ask for interest publicly but make your decisions within the company, you know your brand and what you want out of the collaboration. Showing a case or two publicly with relevance to the pitch is a good idea, and can generate some good discussion.<br />
As for getting these agencies to play together, it&#8217;s like a pack of wolfs, one strong leader with a set of rules and a clear direction/vision and the rest will follow. Two ways to deal with this, you take on the lead role or one of the agency do this (might be the best way to create the one agency approach, but with collaborative selection). Important is to have all figured out form your side then involve the agencies, P&amp;G is a good ref. And if an agency can&#8217;t be open and collaborate, like in the real world, they are not worth having around.<br />
Will follow this with great interest, and good luck!</p>
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		<title>By: Sylvia Paull</title>
		<link>http://gobigalways.com/should-i-attempt-a-transparent-ad-pr-tising-search/#comment-1537</link>
		<dc:creator>Sylvia Paull</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jun 2008 22:08:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gobigalways.com/?p=307#comment-1537</guid>
		<description>This approach is like bedding virgins before taking them out a date. 

All publicists do the same thing, which is to get people to know about what your company has to offer them. If you question their tactics, then the best thing is to do your own PR.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This approach is like bedding virgins before taking them out a date. </p>
<p>All publicists do the same thing, which is to get people to know about what your company has to offer them. If you question their tactics, then the best thing is to do your own PR.</p>
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		<title>By: Sister Martha Mary</title>
		<link>http://gobigalways.com/should-i-attempt-a-transparent-ad-pr-tising-search/#comment-1534</link>
		<dc:creator>Sister Martha Mary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jun 2008 20:36:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gobigalways.com/?p=307#comment-1534</guid>
		<description>Interesting, but do you think the unusual selection process will make much of a difference in the long run?  If your goal is to make the agency jump thru hoops to win the business, go for it, but really, IMHO, ultimately the success of the client-agency relationship rests on the work that's done by the client as well as the agency, after the agency has been chosen. 

You can have a great advertising agency that does great work for you but unmanaged agencies do (beautiful but) ineffective and self-indulgent work. 
 
How you chose them doesn't ultimately matter. Plus, why would I expose my cool ideas to Jive publically and tip my hand to my competitor?

The opinions expressed here are Martha's and only Martha's ;-) Not the megla-corporation she gets paid by.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting, but do you think the unusual selection process will make much of a difference in the long run?  If your goal is to make the agency jump thru hoops to win the business, go for it, but really, IMHO, ultimately the success of the client-agency relationship rests on the work that&#8217;s done by the client as well as the agency, after the agency has been chosen. </p>
<p>You can have a great advertising agency that does great work for you but unmanaged agencies do (beautiful but) ineffective and self-indulgent work. </p>
<p>How you chose them doesn&#8217;t ultimately matter. Plus, why would I expose my cool ideas to Jive publically and tip my hand to my competitor?</p>
<p>The opinions expressed here are Martha&#8217;s and only Martha&#8217;s <img src='http://gobigalways.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> Not the megla-corporation she gets paid by.</p>
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		<title>By: James Hipkin</title>
		<link>http://gobigalways.com/should-i-attempt-a-transparent-ad-pr-tising-search/#comment-1531</link>
		<dc:creator>James Hipkin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 22:00:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gobigalways.com/?p=307#comment-1531</guid>
		<description>Sam,  

You are of course correct in saying the agency system is way past broken.  But is it?  The situation you are describing is extremely common among the Big Dumb Agencies.  I like you have spent much time rattling around in these organizations trying to suggest there is a better way.  The whole voice in the wilderness thing is just that, a voice in the wilderness.  

I think if you looked at some of the independent agencies, yes there are still some around, you would find a much more open and integrated approach to marketing and marketing communication.  For example it is a lot more common for these small shops to have PR as an integrated service.  It's also where you will find more innovation.  They aren't burdened with NY bean counters and they need to be innovative to be profitable in the face of competitive pressure from the BDAs.

Finally, I don't think your approach, at least as currently conceived, will net you the results your are looking for.  I won't reiterate the concerns expressed in earlier comments but I believe they are valid.  If I were you (don't you love this, you can say what you want in a comment) I would ask interested agencies to share in writing what they think about the current marketing environment, what they think about integration and how they would work differently if clients let them.  It is often the client that is the root cause for the current situation. A smart marketer I know, and I am paraphrasing said, "I worked at an agency for a while and had M$ as a client.  It was a great experience except the M$ part."

Then post their submissions blind on your blog.  This will level the playing field and allow the independents to compete.  You will quickly get a sense for how they think and can then invite a few to make a more thorough submission after a more thorough brief.

I'm in Portland next week if you want to get a coffee.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sam,  </p>
<p>You are of course correct in saying the agency system is way past broken.  But is it?  The situation you are describing is extremely common among the Big Dumb Agencies.  I like you have spent much time rattling around in these organizations trying to suggest there is a better way.  The whole voice in the wilderness thing is just that, a voice in the wilderness.  </p>
<p>I think if you looked at some of the independent agencies, yes there are still some around, you would find a much more open and integrated approach to marketing and marketing communication.  For example it is a lot more common for these small shops to have PR as an integrated service.  It&#8217;s also where you will find more innovation.  They aren&#8217;t burdened with NY bean counters and they need to be innovative to be profitable in the face of competitive pressure from the BDAs.</p>
<p>Finally, I don&#8217;t think your approach, at least as currently conceived, will net you the results your are looking for.  I won&#8217;t reiterate the concerns expressed in earlier comments but I believe they are valid.  If I were you (don&#8217;t you love this, you can say what you want in a comment) I would ask interested agencies to share in writing what they think about the current marketing environment, what they think about integration and how they would work differently if clients let them.  It is often the client that is the root cause for the current situation. A smart marketer I know, and I am paraphrasing said, &#8220;I worked at an agency for a while and had M$ as a client.  It was a great experience except the M$ part.&#8221;</p>
<p>Then post their submissions blind on your blog.  This will level the playing field and allow the independents to compete.  You will quickly get a sense for how they think and can then invite a few to make a more thorough submission after a more thorough brief.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m in Portland next week if you want to get a coffee.</p>
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		<title>By: Dennis Howlett</title>
		<link>http://gobigalways.com/should-i-attempt-a-transparent-ad-pr-tising-search/#comment-1530</link>
		<dc:creator>Dennis Howlett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 18:51:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gobigalways.com/?p=307#comment-1530</guid>
		<description>@Greg: the village metaphor is direct from Cluetrain. I like the 'stoning the damned' bit personally. 

PS - Sam and I have a date with some eggs to lobs at.... oh never mind.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Greg: the village metaphor is direct from Cluetrain. I like the &#8217;stoning the damned&#8217; bit personally. </p>
<p>PS - Sam and I have a date with some eggs to lobs at&#8230;. oh never mind.</p>
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		<title>By: Greg</title>
		<link>http://gobigalways.com/should-i-attempt-a-transparent-ad-pr-tising-search/#comment-1529</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 18:33:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gobigalways.com/?p=307#comment-1529</guid>
		<description>I think this is a money idea for a few reasons. Companies are using social media sites to find job candidates (maybe not quite as transparent and public) so why not to find agencies. I've seen some job description via LinkedIn requiring recommendations/endorsements only from those candidates who are 'linked' to the requester. Also, what a way to instantly weed out the overly conservative and insecure agencies by putting your RFP and search in the public eye and public scrutiny. Reminds me of how villagers used to gather in the public square to hear debates, voice opinions and sometimes stone the damned.  Wouldn't you ideally love to have the agencies' existing and past clients, employees and partners give you their two scents? And more importantly, how the agencies respond?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think this is a money idea for a few reasons. Companies are using social media sites to find job candidates (maybe not quite as transparent and public) so why not to find agencies. I&#8217;ve seen some job description via LinkedIn requiring recommendations/endorsements only from those candidates who are &#8216;linked&#8217; to the requester. Also, what a way to instantly weed out the overly conservative and insecure agencies by putting your RFP and search in the public eye and public scrutiny. Reminds me of how villagers used to gather in the public square to hear debates, voice opinions and sometimes stone the damned.  Wouldn&#8217;t you ideally love to have the agencies&#8217; existing and past clients, employees and partners give you their two scents? And more importantly, how the agencies respond?</p>
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		<title>By: Dennis Howlett</title>
		<link>http://gobigalways.com/should-i-attempt-a-transparent-ad-pr-tising-search/#comment-1528</link>
		<dc:creator>Dennis Howlett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 18:26:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gobigalways.com/?p=307#comment-1528</guid>
		<description>@Pete: Because the 20% is what's called IP. But I said 'give' not 'show.' By giving they show a partnership mentality and not a money grubbing let's rip you off DNA which pervades most ad/PR/rent-a-mouth/marketing BS agencies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Pete: Because the 20% is what&#8217;s called IP. But I said &#8216;give&#8217; not &#8217;show.&#8217; By giving they show a partnership mentality and not a money grubbing let&#8217;s rip you off DNA which pervades most ad/PR/rent-a-mouth/marketing BS agencies.</p>
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		<title>By: Pete Wootton</title>
		<link>http://gobigalways.com/should-i-attempt-a-transparent-ad-pr-tising-search/#comment-1527</link>
		<dc:creator>Pete Wootton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 17:43:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gobigalways.com/?p=307#comment-1527</guid>
		<description>@ Dennis --- if what you say is true, how will Sam find a differentiated agency if everyone is showing him the same 80%?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Dennis &#8212; if what you say is true, how will Sam find a differentiated agency if everyone is showing him the same 80%?</p>
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